Emma Mary Gathergood - Women, Men, and the Earth
Collapse Club Podcast - 6th May 2024
This is a transcript of an audio podcast.
INTRO
Emma Mary: We've all come in with a soul. So, What if the woman's soul is an older soul and a stronger soul than the husband's? You know, maybe it would be wise to listen to her, because maybe her decisions might be a little bit wiser than the man's.
David B.: This is Collapse Club. I'm David Baum in Seattle. My guest is Emma Mary Gathergood. She's an ardent feminist and a psychedelic earth listener. Also, a retired mental health therapist and holistic life coach. Emma Mary and I met in Deep Adaptation, where she now runs a weekly workshop called "Earth Listening".
We spoke on May 6th.
WOMEN AND MEN
David B.: What is it that women have specially that men need to respect and be aware of?
Emma Mary: Ah, interesting question!
Well, because they have a child...they can give birth...they're geared up to giving. And the giving comes from deep inside. It's not like a duty thing. So when a woman loves a man in that same giving way, she does not want to be taken advantage of and minimized and put down. She wants to be "Oh wow, this is great that I'm being loved like this!"
So a woman needs to be honored for what she gives and who she is. And the whole old fashioned thing of men, you know, being the boss and the little woman staying at home and doing this and being told what to do, it's nonsensical.
Because we've all come in with a soul! So, what if the woman's soul is an older soul and a stronger soul than the husband's? You know, maybe it would be wise to listen to her, because maybe her decisions might be a little bit wiser than the man's. So it's that level, really.
David B.: Do you think men are out of control today?
Emma Mary: I think they're lost. I think they're desperately lost.
When I think back to my childhood — I'm in my late 70s — and my childhood, oh especially where we were in the Lincolnshire in the countryside in England, it was a balance that worked. The man went out to work and earned the money and the woman looked after the children.
I mean that wasn't always the case, it certainly in cities it wasn't, but more in the country it was. And it worked. Then, because of crazy people like me from the 60s onwards, we've changed all that.
Now, some men have not caught on. You know, I mean, as I say, I started the first ever women's group back in the, the seventies. So women have been doing inner work and growing and becoming aware of, of who they really are doing a lot of inner work. If you go to any group, they're mainly always women. There's still very few men.
So all us women, we expected the men to catch on quicker. And they haven't. And what unfortunately is happening instead, some of the younger men are going. "Not having this, you know! I'm, you know, I'm not being ruled by a woman," and there's a backlash.
So instead of the men going, "Yeah, you're right, it's high time we grew too, we need to be transforming inside, we need to be working out how come we've got the earth in the mess it is, mainly men ruling, we're going to say we'd better look at what we're doing."
And the women are leading in that, and there's lots of workshops one can go on. But the men don't. There's a backlash, and they're just, they're very lost.
And so many young men... I mean, I have two sons now in their 50s, but so many of their friends have committed suicide, have drug overdoses. You know, the young men are dying off like flies, because they're so lost.
And it's very sad because the women didn't want to push the men over the top and make them lost. The women were just leading the way and saying "Come follow us!"
David B.: Do you think the men caused the problem of the Earth or do you think problem of the Earth pushed the men off the way?
Emma Mary: Oh, interesting question! I mean, it's really easy to say, "Well, it's the men who did it because they made all the decisions that were crazy." But I think the women, we, we were too accepting, too complacent, too allowing. We let them.
I mean, I was married for 12 years and did not have it how I wanted and accepted that. And then one day said enough and I left. But, let's just say society lost its way.
WHAT ARE WE TO DO?
David B.: So what are we to do now that we find ourselves in this crisis and a worsening situation? What are we to do, Emma Mary?
Emma Mary: Okay. Well, as you know, I'm very interested in the Earth and listening to the Earth, and learning something called "Earth Listening."
I have a point that says if people had listened to the Earth before, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. So I maintain, if the leading powers, the people in parliaments and people attempting to run the country listened to the Earth, for starters, they would get an awareness of how to do it differently.
And I think if that doesn't ring true for people, then pray. Go up to Spirit. Invite the Godhead to come in and make a suggestion. But it doesn't matter...something bigger than us, whether we're talking about Mother Earth, or we're talking about Great Spirit, and the whole spiritual realm.
Humanity is lost and we need a hand, and it's the arrogance of humanity that thinks it can go it alone, and that's why we're in the mess we are. So it's to have the humility to ask.
And as the indigenous people asked, you know, and got in touch with their spirit guides, their ancestors, and lived for thousands of years, sustainably. Whereas we, you know, we've messed up in such a short time... you know, a few hundred years, really. We've so seriously messed up, because of arrogance and because of saying, "Oh, the human brain has got it all. We just need a few more scientific discoveries and then we'll have got it." Of course it isn't that.
David B.: How do we explain the terrible situation that we find ourselves in?
Emma Mary: Because we've been given free will. "Let's create these folks and let them... give them free will. We're not going to tell them what to do." And the hope was that because inside they're good, they will come back to the good. It's innate. It's within them to be good. And to be helpful and to be kind.
What's gone wrong with the Earth is nothing to do with "God." We were given free will and we've messed up, you know. It's a bit like giving a bunch of kids... The teacher comes in one day and says, "Okay kids, the rest of this afternoon it's up to you what you do. I'm leaving the room." And then they watch them.
It might work out, it might not, but we act like kids, that's the truth of it. And we've got to grow up, and we've got to take some responsibility for the mess we've made of everything, and then become humble and start asking for advice, for a feeling of connection.
I've got a great thing about the word "connection." So many people don't feel either connected to the Earth or connected to prayer and some being they pray to. So many people don't have either of those. And therefore they're all alone and they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing.
And they're completely lost. Maybe if they have a bit of psychotherapy, it might help them a bit. But they're sort of like a leaf in the wind. They don't know who they are and, and where... What life is all about" And, and there isn't this sense of "Oh, I'm not sure what to do about this. Oh, well, I'll pray about it, or I'll go and sit and talk to my favourite tree and see what comes."
It's just like "Oh, I'll make the decision. I'll decide so and so." You know, off the top of their head, often without a real deep awareness and reflection. And so that's my answer to that.
EARTH LISTENING
David B.: You lead a workshop for Deep Adaptation.
Emma Mary: Yes, it's called "Earth Listening," and we've been going three and a half years now, every Friday, without a miss. And every week we have a different theme. For example, last week's theme was Beltane, because it's the time of year. Beltane is the Celtic festival of May the 1st.
And so we talk about what are the earth energies of this particular time of year. And we align ourselves to those earth energies, and we'll talk about that and then I'll lead a meditation, and then I'll shut up and let people go quiet.
And what I've done is invited them to go into their favorite place or a place not too far from home and connect to nature, and whatever the thing we're talking about is to go talk to Nature.
But but I only do that in the context of already having made a friend of Nature. Because so many people go, "Oh, I love nature. I always play with my dog in the woods." Or, "Oh, yeah, my friend and I, we always have a catch up when we're walking by the beach." And it's like, no, that isn't how you have a connection with somebody or something. You have to go in just you and it and get to know it.
And another thing that I really feel is true is: if you love a particular woodland or your own garden, if you love it, the trees, the shrubs, the hillsides, they love being loved. So they're going to love you back. So there's a two way connection. And so you build this up, over time, this deep connection.
And it is like another being that you can then go and have a conversation with, and you feel you can pour your heart out, you can sit and cry, or get really angry and really sick, and something will come into your head from this being. In my case, a tree being — I have a fairly strong relationship with one or two particular trees, but trees in general — and they're there for us.
They want to help us, they love it when we do this. I've suggested that before the meditation, and then people go off in their imagination to somewhere they know and love and have this conversation and come back and then we all share. And it's amazing how helpful it is because even in meditation, we don't always have a good meditate.
So sometimes people might not get anything, but they pick up on what the other people got, which is often completely different. It's just a matter of the person. But we share, and people always feel better at the end of it. We have a check in at the beginning and the end, and people usually are really... they love it and they come back week after week after week.
David B.: So this practice gives rise to an internal connection and a sense of internal peace. How does that benefit the world at large?
Emma Mary: As I said, if we had only listened to the Earth, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.
So it benefits the Earth at large because the Earth, you know, she's a being. Mother Earth is a being, a sentient being, who is fed up with being treated the way she has. And so all these wildfires and everything, I really believe is a way of her trying to get our attention. Well, if she's got our attention, and we're listening to her, and we're saying "what can we do?", she's going to tell us.
Nature will never harm you if you really listen to her and respect her. And don't panic if something goes wrong. Just be still and listen. It's like Nature's our friend! And the fact that in recent years it appears otherwise is because she wants our attention. And I think if we give her our attention, we'll find ways through at least some of our crises.
GOODBYE
David B.: That was Emma Mary Gathergood on Collapse Club. For links to Emma Mary's Earth Listening workshop, please visit the Deep Adaptation event calendar at this link: https://teamup.com/ksgwdbu1oxnhu8npdi
Here at Collapse Club, we offer three meetings a week where we talk about our experience of collapse. If you have no one to share with about this incredibly important topic, please visit our website at https://www.collapseclub.com and sign up for our newsletter.
We look forward to seeing you. I'm David Baum in Seattle. Until we meet again, farewell!
###